When to Close the Door on Cheating, Romance and Alcoholics

open door bright lightFrom: Jim
Hello everyone. I happened on this site, alcoholicsfriend.com, perchance after viewing several YouTube videos concerning alcoholism and relationships. I must say it is a diamond in a sea of rough.

My name is Jim, I’m a 33yo male, educated, and hold a professional position in the technology field. According to my friends, I’m a contrast of sorts—extremely technically and logically oriented, yet I don’t possess the typical “IT guy” persona as it appears to my feelings, socializing, and getting my own self out there. I love people.

My story begins 13 years ago when I met, who I thought, was my soul mate—a girl that made life worth living. I was young, 20, had never really experienced love or life before, but felt all of the passion and convictions associated with it. It felt real. We fell quickly in love, before ever truly getting to know each other. Engagement quickly came, followed by a breakup, followed up by reuniting… A pattern began to emerge.

Over the years, our personalities developed as we matured through our early to mid 20’s, towards our 30s. Over those same years, as quickly as we fell in love, we fell out of love.

About three years ago, under very extreme circumstances, we were both unfaithful to each other. Both of us cheated. The bond of trust enjoyed for so many years was shattered.

Over the next 2.5 years, our relationship flattened out. We tried moving, buying homes, starting over… all temporary Band-Aids. Trust was gone. From there, we tried therapy a number of times, talking at length about “why” everything happened, things just weren’t the same.




We became roommates. Love was truly gone. Being that this is all I knew, this girl who I met over a decade before, I almost accepted this was my life. Game over.

All of this changed for me last Christmas season at a work function, our annual Christmas party. During the course of the night, I ran into a co-worker I sort of knew… she had worked with us about two years ago, left for another position, and then recently came back and accepted a new position within our organization. By chance, she decided to come to the Christmas party and socialize with her co-workers. Once the function ended, a group of us decided to retire to a local bar across the street for a drink prior to going home. We invited her group of friends to join us… the more the merrier. I fell into a conversation with this girl… a mesmerizing and tantalizing discussion about so many topics. We were spot on in agreement throughout it all. We complemented each other perfectly. During the course of the night, her words echoed inside my heart unlike I had ever heard before. I finally felt the parts of myself dormant for years with the girl I started dating 12 years before, come alive again. It was a truly uplifting experience. She felt the same way.

In short order, over the next couple of weeks, we spoke and hung constantly. There was never any inappropriate behavior or actions between us. She was also in a multi-year relationship with someone, and we had both committed to ending one chapter of our life before beginning another, the right way. . Things were so perfect between us in every conceivable way; we both knew what we had to do. By the time New Years rolled around, we jointly walked away from our lives to be together.

Now the fun, romantic dating times began…. At first, everything was absolutely perfect. We were inseparable. Every discussion was magical; every dinner date was perfect—sharing a single glass of wine, etc. There were no drunken times. About a month into our relationship, I was supposed to meet her for dinner at a steak house. As dinner time rolled around and I sat at the restaurant waiting, I began to worry. Calls and text messages went unanswered, etc. At no point did I assume alcohol was involved, I thought something happened to her! I left. A few hours later, she returned my call… said she needed a ride home and had lost her keys. Upon picking her up (from a bar), it was clear she was extremely intoxicated. I got her home safe and wrote it off to just a bad night, stress, family issues, etc.

The problems began to multiply–more of the same over the next few months. It was not as consistent as many of you experience, purely random, but I began to notice patterns in her behavior changing. She went from being the kind, outgoing, caring girlfriend who loved to just spend time holding my hand as we strolled through a neighborhood park, to someone who would ask me, “can we stop for a drink?” almost every time we would see each other without specific plans. At this point, we were still together 3-4 nights per week. When I began to take notice of this, and comment, “why?”, or ask her “can we have a night where we don’t drink?” she would get very quiet and almost bored with the evening…oddly, never disagreeing or forcing alcohol to enter the evening, but just elsewhere in her mind.

At the same time, several months into our relationship, she would exhibit mysterious behavior. For example, almost every time I would call her, she never answered, and would always call me back. I noticed her begin calling in sick at work randomly. Her availability seems to drastically decrease the more I mentioned she potential problems with alcohol.

The LIES began. She began to lie to me about people she would see, places she would go, and things she would do. In the next month or so, it became almost comical in a sad way just how poorly constructed some of these lies were. Still thinking this was the girl of my life, the girl whom I left everything I had known as a adult for 12 years, I felt horrifically depressed, sad, and I wanted ANSWERS. Being the dedicated and energetic boyfriend I am, I sought those answers out by showing up randomly at her house, (she, like I, had moved back in with our parents after we left our ex’s to be together), checking the local bars for her car, driving around for sometimes hours trying to find out where she is, every time she would just ignore me randomly. In doing so, I figured out a number of things … at one point, she was still hiding the fact she was going out drinking with her ex boyfriend (a guy who has never truly accepted their relationship was over), drinking excessively almost 5-6 nights a week, and calling into work to begin drinking at 10 or 11 in the morning.. At night, she would go out randomly, tell me she was her mother shopping, or some other story, and then call me several hours later while driving, completely intoxicated. This lead to many fights.

About a month ago, I tried to have a heart to heart conversation with her. I laid out my feelings, although admittedly I am capable of saying things that do nothing but make the situations worse, as I have never dealt with alcoholism before. I explained how her lying and drinking are directly related to trust for me, and I’m worried it is all but gone here. What can we do, if anything, to try to resolve this? I spoke about my love for her, about how much we both did in terms of changing our lives to be together, and felt we were getting close to a solution. She admitted she doesn’t know why she drinks, she doesn’t know when to stop, and writes a lot of this off as her having fun in her young years. She is 29. In her mind, as soon as she settles down and gets married, or plans to have children, the drinking will just stop. Again, not knowing how to deal with someone like this, I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. As much as struggle with trust from my past relationship and now this one, I want to be in love. I am the type of person who feels the need to take care of their special someone. I think I’m a fixer when I know no one can fix alcoholism until the person with the disease wants to fix themselves.

Over the past month, her drinking has gotten worse. She writes it off to stress, or minimizes it… or flat out denies it. When I would see her, almost every time, I would smell alcohol on her breath… no matter what time of day. Most days I would be too ashamed to mention it and tried to ignore it. This has been a very difficult month for me. Her drinking seems to be accelerating to almost every day now… sometimes 5-6-7 days in a row. I only know about this from when I see her, she will hardly ever drink around me, but is perpetually late when we do have things to do, always showing up 30 minutes behind and smelling like alcohol.

Last weekend, things exploded when we went to a big musical festival together, spent the weekend at a nice hotel to catch the concerts, and I caught myself checking her cell phone and finding proof of her ex still trying to communicate with her, despite her telling me (and him), she wanted nothing to do with him. I want to believe her, but knowing how closely tied alcoholism and lying are together, I just can’t. We fought for a few days, with her always trying to steer the arguments away from her behavior and her drinking to my actions… placing the full blame on me.

She claims she’s afraid as far as this relationship; her biggest fear here is that the fighting will never go away. I try to tell her my attitude and sometimes anger is directly related and in response to her actions… the drinking, the lying, and the mysterious behavior that seems to follow all of this around. Despite that, she claims she wants to be happy in life, and just enjoy things… yet wants to be serious in a love-providing relationship with someone? She said she needs a break from me and my obsessive nature. One month. Prior to storming off, she said I should call her in one month when I figure myself out. ????

I am thoroughly confused. I thought people who try to care for the ones they love and prevent them from hurting themselves were good people, not bad. At this point, several days have gone by where she has flat out ignored me.

A couple of days ago, after finding this site and reading MANY of the articles and your stories, I tried to text her asking her if we can talk, no arguments. I felt I have some new tools available to me to deal with some of this behavior and am eager to try it out.

Long, long, story short, what the heck do I do now? In talking to my closest friends, they are in agreement – they feel this relationship isn’t worth my time, the new $300k house I just bought and want to find someone to share it with, shouldn’t be her. They feel I am wasting my effort, worrying about someone who just wants to have fun, who is self-fish, has substance abuse issues, and sees me as the kind of person who will always be there for them. They advise me to forget about her as soon as possible. I don’t know if I can do that though, I am truly someone who doesn’t invest in someone else like this unless my feelings are real… through thick and thin, I don’t commit to someone lightly, nor can I walk away easy….

Despite the fact we have been together for 7 months, aren’t married, and have no children, it isn’t easy for me to walk away when my heart still belongs to this girl, even with her problems… I want to help. There is a very special person in there who has everything I wanted in a life partner, a wife, but trying to find those elements in a sea of whiskey and beer is not easy. What should I do? As I titled this story, When Is The Right Time to Close the Door?

Thank you all, especially you JC, for this website. Your lessons are already affecting me in a positive way.

Jim from Chicago

174 comments to When to Close the Door on Cheating, Romance and Alcoholics

  • brigitte

    Wow marie, maybe we are married to the same person? Lol. Its so sick and insane though and the sad part is we become sick too. Never saw it until recently.

  • Pez

    Bridgette, can’t find that article on Sober recovery site? Any hints how to find it? did not even come up in the search bar.

  • brigitte

    Ill try find it and either post it on here or tell u how to find it. I think its under friends and familys of alcoholics forum and there is a sticky called ‘classic reading’. Ill double check though

  • brigitte

    My name’s Jon. I’m an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn’t be using if I loved myself, and since I don’t, I cannot love you.

    My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn’t faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.

    My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.

    And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.

    Stop being surprised.

    I am an addict. And that’s what addicts do.
    __________________

    Have A Great 24
    -jon

    __________________
    You’ve Got To Have A Dream Before It Can C

  • fran

    hi all. i have been in a relationship with an a for 12 years, i married him divorced him had a son with him, supported him though a detox, been to aa meetings to learn about him, gone to al-lon meetings, been to other places to learn, i have done the marriage counselling with him,, and nothing worked, i had to still hide my money change my pin numbers for my bank cards as he would clear them out, he has cheated on me, lied to me, abused me i guess, but no more, i have left him well kicked him out, he still see,s our son when not drinking but this is emotionaly hard for me.. god i loved him, but for my sanaity i needed to get out, i always douted myself, was it me, NO, it wasnt me i am normal i am a good woman and i do desrve better,, he seems to think i will calm down and take him back,,, ummm really, well he will be shocked as im moving on, I AM ME AND DESERVE TO BE HAPPY, so if your finding this true for your life remember we only have one, so we shouldnt be held back, good luck everyone, we have done enough stay strong girl

  • fran

    Thank you jon,,,, i needed to hear that, brings it home to me that i have done the right thing

  • Pez

    Thanx Bridgette for posting that–the cold hard truth. It hurts. Doesn’t it.

  • brigitte

    The Pain Stops: when you stop looking at the person you love as the person you love, and you begin to see them, not as a partner, a lover, or a best friend, but as a human being with the strengths and weaknesses and even the core of a child.

    The Pain Stops: when you begin to accept that what you would do in a circumstance is not what they would do, and that no matter how much you try, they have to learn their own lessons, and they have to touch the stove when it’s hot, just as you did, to learn that it is much better when it is cold.

    The Pain Stops: when your longing for them gets slowly replaced by a desire to get away, when making love to them no longer makes you feel cherished, when you find yourself tired of waiting for the moments where the good will truly outweigh the bad, and when at the end of the day you can’t count on their arms for comfort.

    The Pain Stops: when you start to look inward and decide whether their presence is a gift or a curse, and whether when you need them, they cause more heartache than bliss.

    The Pain Stops: when you realize that you deserve more than they offer and stop blaming them for being less than you wish. When the smile of a stranger seems more inviting and kind, and you remember what it’s like to feel beautiful, and you remember how long it has been since your lover whispered something in your ear that only the two of you would know.

    The Pain Stops: when you forgive them for their faults and forgive yourself for staying so long. When you know that you tried harder than you ever tried before, and you know in your heart that love should not be so much work.

    The Pain Stops: when you start to look in the mirror and like who you see, and know that leaving them or losing them is no reflection of your beauty or your worth.

    The Pain Stops: when the promise of a new tomorrow is just enough to start replacing the emptiness in your heart, and you start dreaming again of who you used to be and who you will become.

    The Pain Stops: when you say goodbye to what never really was, and accept that somewhere in the fog you may or may not have been loved back. And you promise yourself never again to lay in arms that don’t know how to cherish the kindness in your heart.

    The Pain Stops: When you are ready.

    __________________
    “I may be powerless, but I am NOT prayerless. Therefore, I will pray and leave the rest to God”

  • Marie

    Hi Brigitte,

    That is nothing but the truth and beautifully put that I literally cried reading it. Yes our Alcoholic AH or AB are weak and this is why they are addicts. That’s why I put it all in GOD’s hand because although this may hurt I find strength, courage, and comfort in his words.

    My faith in him has allowed me to still find some compassion for my AH because we are all imperfect human beings and some of us are definitely stronger than others.

    I just know that love will not cloud my mind from REALITY and REALITY is that until he is ready to accept his disease of alcoholism I can’t not help him or stay in this situation. I have children that need to be in a loving and nurturing environment so because my love my children is greater I choose to leave.

    Thanks again for sharing these beautiful words. God Bless!!! 🙂

  • brigitte

    Marie. Its only a pleasure. I have been to hell and back with this man that I loved so much in this last year and I spent my time running between al anon, counselling, researching sites like these to just try find answers as to ‘why?’ I’ve beaten myself up about things I should of done, shouldn’t have said, could have done and I cried buckets of tears, was deeply depressed, lost tons of weight and lost myself totally. I feel your pain, I truly do but I’ve come to learn acceptance. You are still going through the motions, you will get there eventually. Noone wants to lose the person we love but you know what? We lost them long ago. To a cruel mistress called alcohol. I’ve learnt so much from all of this and the most important lesson I’ve learnt is that WE cannot change them. Our love, our kids, our support, whatever, it is not enough. Addiction is stronger and it will chew you up and spit you out before u even blink. Serenity and peace are in your reach, all you gotta do is take that step towards it. Remember, you have the power, use it to your own good.

  • linda

    Brigitte
    Thanks so much for your post.need to stop this pain. Just trying to get strong. The pain will stop. Can’t get rid of the need to expose his lies. He has a new enabler. I need to stop this dam pain.

  • brigitte

    Linda, I feel your pain. There’s nothing more devastating than knowing that the person you love and have stood by has dropped you for someone new and its natural to want to lash out and let everyone know just what type of horrible, lying, cheating monster he is and I’ve done that. All it does though is prove to him that ur the crazy one and he has more ammo against you. So the best is to detatch and let go. Go for counselling, al anon and deal with your pain and I promise that you will get to a stage where u will learn to accept and heal. Remember, the best pridiction of future behaviour is past behaviour so the pattern with the new enabler will be the same as it was with you. I still have days where I cry my eyes out for what was and what could have been if only he had seen what his drinking did to us and the weekends are the worst because he’s living his life and ‘having fun’ while I’m stuck at home with small kids but I tell myself that he’s losing out on what’s worth it in life. All those ‘friends’, parties, what do they really amount up to in the big scheme of things? Kids, family, close friends, serenity, health, I’ve got that. Whereas alcoholics are sick and depressed and angry and tormented every day of their lives. They will spend their lives chasing ‘happiness’ or what they think is happiness whereas u and I and everyone that has suffered here will work on ourselves and get to a healthy place and find true happiness in life and love. Imagine living your life every single day craving a drink? And not being able to function without it? Imagine not being able to be sincere and loving? Imagine never holding your childs small little hand in yours and not feeling that warm little body and baby smells and seeing the love for you in those little eyes? We get all that. They don’t. They lose at their own sick ‘game’. So stop playing the game with him linda and fold your cards down on the table and walk out that door and don’t look back. Easier said than done I know but for your sanity, you don’t have much of a choice. As they say, you only have two options here. Stay and cope and live a detatched life from the alcoholic or leave and find a new life. I don’t think staying is an option anymore, I used too but I see now that it just aint worth the time and the tears. Hugs to you girl.

  • Tracy

    Brigitte/Linda,

    I am in the same situation I left 10 months ago its hard and I get tearful but I would NEVER take my AH back. I lie at night and think of the good times and then I think of all the times he went out and left me with 2 small kids and I didn’t know where he was (before Mobiles he wouldn’t answer it any way). He could be away for weeks/months, I think of all the lies, false promises, like everyone on this site my best wasn’t good enough but its not us its them, they are sick people who refuse to seek help. My AH came to my home on Tuesday I hadn’t seen him for 8 weeks and I got the fright of my life he is 47 looks 57 or older he is purple, bloated and his stomach is swollen but he says he’s not drinking!

    Another woman made me keep him out this time, and in a weird sort of way she did me a favour as if not for finding her number I would have took him back time and time again. Over the 25 years there has been more as he sist in bars with the same kind of women as themselves. I am sad sometime because you grieve for the man you love also the future you thought you were going to have with them but we were never having that future we were always going to come to this as the disease gets worse so does their behaviour, lies etc.

    8 weeks ago my AH was all sorry he’ll change then I find out he has at least 6 women on the go! Well he pissed one of them off and she told someone I knew so his sorid sess pit of a life was exposes hence the reason I have not seen him in 8 weeks! And guess who go the blame yes me! all my fault we lost our home, business and marriage!

    Today after 10 months of torturing myself who was the O/W I found out and I laughed that he threw away 25 years for a ego boost. She is a 30 years old beautician with yellow blonde hair, seriously nothing to look at a bit slimmer than me but I am 18 years older than her and I look better so there you go ladies they always affair down. I feel a bit relief tonight because I don’t know the silly women as if I’d known her I would have been furious. He’s not even with her that finished the day I found out shame she could have done something with his purple face.

    It does get better I’m no where near healed but I do have less and less bad days, weekends are hard but the A is not out having fun they are out feeding a monster. How sad is it that you have to drink not that you want too that you have too.

    God Bless us All X

  • Debbi

    JB:
    Thank you for your insight and will most certainly watch that video-right now actually. I have left my ex. It’s been a year. He tried to covertly kill me 3 times when I was ill–staying in that kind of relationship was not possible whatsoever–I valued my life. Thank you again!

  • JB

    Debbi:
    So glad you’re going to watch it – I got a lot out of it. I just finished Alcoholism Myths and Realities by Doug Thorburn… really interesting stuff.
    http://www.amazon.com/Alcoholism-Myths-Realities-Destructive-ebook/dp/B0087GKFOU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1381458190&sr=8-3&keywords=alcoholism+myths
    This man is an addiction expert and came into his field of study after being involved romantically with an alcoholic. He wanted to make sure he never got involved with one again. He’s also written books on protecting yourself financially from an alcoholic (He is also an accountant). I hope you get the chance to read it. For me the two things that helped the most were cutting off all contact with the alcoholic (consider him your addiction and you need to stay away), and reading everything I can on the disease of alcoholism. There is nothing we could have done to stop the progression of this disease and we need to heal and understand that this says nothing about our self-worth. Nothing and no one will get the alcoholic to stop until he is ready. I suffered for so long thinking that my ex chose a six-pack of beer over me. I still have some bad days, but I read whatever I can and remind myself that this is a disease that destroys lives, produces horrendous behavior in the alcoholic and absolutely obliterates relationships. Better to get out and find serenity. Oh and get to Al-anon! So glad you’ve hit the year mark. You’re getting stronger everyday!

  • Pez

    JB I am glad you have found peace but not all of us believe this is a 100% disease. Have you read the opposings sides view? It has not been proven to be a disease, and yes, I watched some of the UTube of the video you recommended and other articles this vs. that. I do belive there is a choice involved especially in early and mid stages. I have heard stories of A’s realizing the hurt they were causing to themselves and loved ones and CHOSE to get help! You can not cure yourself of cancer but you can of addiction by acknowledgement. I know my XAB could have chosen help the 1st 2 to 3 years I was with him, I saw him admit he had a problem and I saw him rebel against help like a teenager. Now the later stages I am not sure about. In the last year I tried with him I saw increasing mental instability, Bad behavior he was oblivious to, etc….At this point he may be past denial to delusional. Any addiction can become a disease or cause disease such as smoking can result in lung cancer, bladder cancer, etc….I personally feel it starts out as an addiction and that a point unknown to us it assumes disease aspects from the damage of the drug. And if your mind is too far damaged from the drug it makes it nearly impossible to stop or make a decision of that magnitude. I believe it is too complex to say it is this way or that way 100%.

  • JB

    Lol ok thanks. Will probably refrain from participating anymore on this. Will stick to al-anon I think. Best of luck!

  • Debbi

    JB:
    I read Doug Thornburn’s books last year and I asked to speak with him and had a one hour conversation with him last spring–he is an amazing person with insight into alcoholism and addiction and his research is making news. He helped me gain insight into protecting my assets while divorcing my ex to protect assets that would later have most value. He told me to expect retaliation from what he heard me describe about my ex–& boy was he right–my ex broke into bank accounts & as soon as money was separated he called these bank accounts and told them I was deceased. Believe it not–not a crime!!! Unless money is stolen not a crime per my prosecutor’s office. Also not a crime he ripped out brake lines on the trailer he wanted in the divorce but did not get. Only a crime if I had an accident & could prove he did it. This is where my earlier question to you came in–how does someone who for 20 years acted to me like he could not read or write suddenly changes to someone who knew how to do all these things that he knew could not be traced back to him. So Doug helped me understand how they actually think and perform better while under the influence & thus the big ego. I have enjoyed your posts and I learn so much from everyone here! Thank you & thank you everyone!

  • Linda

    How do I fine The Sober Recovery Site that was posted????

  • brigitte

    Google ‘sober recovery’ and choose the first one at the top of the page and go into forums. It will ask u to register. Once you have registered, it is very easy to use. I have found a lot under ‘friends and family of alcoholics’.

  • Linda

    Thanks Brigitte.

  • linda

    Tracy
    Thanks for your post. I also left for a year. And let his words convinced me to work on us;when reality is he is gaslighting me and sitting here like a definite 12 year old. Not talking;smug anything to just hurt me.

  • Linda

    Brigitte
    I also left when are 2 sons were young, came back after rehab. I now realize what I was trying to get away from, this dam disease. Now I have been replace, the A just denies, so he can continue having his cake and eat it to. Wish now I would have stayed gone when the kids were small. I see what it has done to them. I was a VERY good enabler. Did everything so not to upset the A, Oldest son(that was about 8} help me to clean chimney. Also cried , winter the water pipe broke, saying he should have fix it. How sad for my 8 year old. He is now 32 Works like a horse. But he does not want to see what this disease has done to this family. I see are youngest son doing the same things his father did n does. Lying to me! My wish is they could see it. They think I’m trying to put them against their father. I pray they see it someday.

  • brigitte

    Tracy, you are so right, they do affair down. I guess they start having to hang out in bars with other people that do the same things as they do. Good luck to them. Imagine two alkies in a relationship. EeEuuw, its gonna get horrible. Linda. Let his new ‘enabler’ have him. She can deal with all the bullshit from now on coz let’s face it, what’s gonna change? Your sons will see it, they probably already have in small ways but the A will play his pity card for all its worth with them too. Don’t beat yourself up about staying all those years. We all want to keep our family together and I bet thousands of women have done that. There comes a time when you just have to let go though and save yourself which you are doing now.

  • Bruce

    I don’t think my pain will ever stop. We were on the road to resolving our problems when my A girlfriend passed away. I don’t think I will ever understand how someone can do bad things to themselves. I will have to learn how to live with so many unanswered questions. Lucky for me I found and made a good friend on this site. That friend is always there for me when needed.You know who you are. :). Everyone hang in there and get things straight before it is too late.

  • nina

    I´m just amazed at Brigittes words. I am new to the alcoholism world even tough I have been in a relationship with an alcoholic for 4 years. Never truly understood the magnitude of my situation. I spend years wondering what was wrong with me? Tried 1 000 diets to loose the weight and just tried everything to be perfect. And it didn´t matter how hard I tried I was left with a feeling of something must be truly wrong with me. I haven´t had sex in I don´t know how long. Until one day of dispair I discovered one of those short videos from alcoholic friends and I realized how many people were on the same situation, physical abuse, cheating, lying, money, anger, psicological abuse, low self-steem, codependant relationship, depression. I digged in all those stories and some articles and immeadiatly a door opened for me.

    It has been just afew days but it hit me. Im not the horrible person he said I was, Im not alone, it´s like I detached from the situation and now I am able to see the hole situation with perspective. I felt suddenly strong, pretty in control.
    day by day I see this change growing in me and even my boyfriend sees it as I ´stop fighting. I would like to thank this group for sharing their pain, very personal stories and how to bloom into a new life.

  • brigitte

    Nina. Ill be honest they aren’t my words. Its a post I found that I had to share with you guys. When I read it a few months back, I cried my eyes out. Very enlightening.

  • Mike

    Bruce, it is a demonic possession of the spirit and soul.
    Almost like thew movies, it really is.
    Why else would a person keep hitting themselves in the forehead with a hammer?
    And then wonder why their head hurts?
    The drinker wants to keep hitting themselves in the head (drinking).
    They are experts at justifying that.
    It all comes down to how they “deserve it for the things they have done.”
    The devil has their spirit and runs it through the ground daily.
    Most of what they do to get well, is all show for us.
    “See. I’m doing all the right things and I feel better.”
    Until their next crisis, which is never far.
    As was said here previous. Expect the drinker to do exactly what a four year old will do.
    Even sober, they have a strange way of behaving. Very childlike, because they have never grown up mentally.
    Married to an alcoholic is like forever raising a child. “Brush your teeth. Pick up your mess. Don;t forget….”

  • Mike

    It has been showed that drinkers have slow growth of the frontal lobe of the brain.
    The maturity part is there and impulsive part lies there. Alcohol stunts that growth.
    For example, if someone started to drink at age 18 and they drank for 20 years.
    when they stop, they are really 20 again mentally, even thought thier body is 38.

  • C

    Mike:

    Your post is excellent. “Until their next crisis, which is never far”. They drain everyone around them dry – emotionally, financially and their behavior never improves – just changes for a few moments.

    Thanks for your comments – always right on and comforting. I can’t believe male or female, an A pretty much acts the same way.

  • Tracy

    Linda,

    I had the same problem with my kids I was the bad one, but I learned to play the A at his own game. My daughter fell out with me for 8 months went to live with him. His drunken behaviour got me her back in my life a different girl she now sees its him and not me. I am so much more laid back I don’t walk on egg shells I am back to being the person I was before I met him. My A took a nice young easy going girl and made me in to a basket case. I still have really bad days but I am healing slowly. My AH thinks we are all friendly at the minute NO were not he forgets the hell he put me and my kids through. He’s hanging about like a bad smell, well I ruined his weekend by telling him that I know who his 18 month affair is! He denied it yet again though he was very angry and swearing at me what do you think GUILT and been caught! I feel okay tonight as it was eating away at me thinking it was someone I knew. He dropped himself in it by answering me when I said her name and where she worked etc, normally he would just blank my texes. Not so smart is he. X

  • Pez

    Ya know, what do you guys think about the motive for my XAB coming into my grocery store and trying to strike up a conversation like nothing happened? (He absolutely saw my car & came in and looked for me) I mean, it just pisses me off! I blocked all his phones text and email and voice, avoided everything that had to do with him and he has the gaul to do this after abandoning me 2wice and all the rest over the years. Just would like to hear why you may think he did it?
    Was it just he was a drunk idiot that though we could still have something? Maybe wanting to keep me on the line and use me to taunt the other ghetteo woman. Thinks he’s an all over sexy god that no woman can’t resist? Or just still trying to play the game? God, if I did that to someone I could never look them in the face again!!

  • Julie

    You know Pez we will never understand their motives but i go with still trying to drag you back into the game or testing you to see if you would respond the way he wants. So you did a wonderful thing by not responding the way he had hoped. If you had been friendly he would have figured you still wanted to be a part of his game. And we all know that is a road you do not want to head down.

  • Pez

    Thanx Julie, that’s what my Aunt said and you confirmed it she said “He was testing me”. God they are just relentless in the amount they are willing to hurt you again and again and again if we let them! Boundries Girls and guys—Looks like it’s the only way. Tough boundries.

  • Debbi

    Pez:
    You were the one who told me that items being stolen out of my yard was the result of my ex AH & so I tell you the same. If it was a store he normally shops in then I could understand him coming there at the same time as you but if it is not his normal, better than 80% chance he came there on purpose to bump into you especially if he saw your car. Guess what mine’s doing now? Went to 3 stores and took over my rewards cards putting his name on them but with my email address so I get emails on what he is purchasing–just what I want to know. And now even better he is giving out my address as his. I shut off both phones & 2 email accounts so now he harasses me through the mail. What do I have to do now?? Glue my mailbox shut to stop this now? Post office boxes don’t work because he forwards mail. Here’s how you handle bumping into him in the future–YAWN–a nice big one–you are bored when in his presence–no reaction unless it is to show how bored you are by even being around him! Go show him girlfriend what you’re made of!

  • Pez

    Debbie, hope your are not going to be stuck with the rewards cards bills? Get your name removed! You can’t handle paying for his purchases.
    I am hoping that will be the end of it with my strong response! But you never know with an A do you.
    You don’t have to worry. He discusts me now with his weenie in a low life looser. YUK!! Piggie in my thoughts. Will sleep with ANYTHING to have his way==makes me sick. I don’t want him. I want someone I can trust!

  • Debbi

    Pez:
    Love it–weenie–I’m stealing that name as my new name for my ex!
    No, on the rewards it is not a credit card but I had a Sears one & amassed 6,000 points towards purchases giving you discounts–get this, he walks into Sears gives my phone number so my name & reward card comes up and they stupidly listen to him and change it to his name? Damn I just lost 6,000 points–there goes my discount but I was so mad at the store for doing that I sure told them what they could do with their rewards cards–good Lord, I’m getting feisty in my old age or this alcoholism is getting to me & I don’t even drink!

  • Pez

    I have to think this way right now–discusted. I have NO room for compassion for the A at this time. Maybe later. But right now I want to be soooo discusted and turned off so not to even have an inkling of a thought for him as I used to!!
    If he continues to harass me or shows up at my salon or any other, Colorado has a NO CONTACT order I can get and I will. Unwanted contact is against the law and considered harassment!

  • Debbi

    I wanted to post this message to all the men who may be reading the articles here and to those that are posting here. You are probably not as verbal as us women but I want you to know as I read some of your stories where you are miserable in the relationships with your A’s I wish I could go to the women in your lives causing you this pain & literally shake them up. In November of 2011 I received a diagnosis that looked to be a death sentence for me. I have often heard that when facing death the person wants to do all the things they have not yet done in their life but for me it was different. I wanted to make amends with everyone of my family members and pull them close to me and tell them how much they meant to me. I did not want to do things I never got to do–I wanted to enjoy all the things I took for granted. So upon facing what I thought was my last Thanksgiving I had a nice family dinner and of course my then AH, his daughter, mother, sister ruined it for me because behind my back my husband told them of my diagnosis even though I asked him not too and right before my special Thanksgiving I found out they were laughing about me and what was about to happen to me. At Christmas I wanted one last time to attend midnight service and see my 200 year old church lit up with the beautiful candles but again my husband ruined it for me demanding instead I spend it with his family. He chose his family over me that night and I went to church alone as usual. Now came New Year’s where my husband would very rarely do anything with me so I scheduled us for a tradition I loved in a neighboring town where all the buildings open up and they bring in bands, magicians, comedians and fireworks on the beach. Sure enough at midnight they played “Ol Lang Sighn” (spelling?? sorry) and I begged my husband to dance with me for I thought it might be my last new years and he refused. He broke my heart yet again and made the night horrible for me because other women were more important and alcohol more important to him than even what I was going through. I just wanted to dance one more time with my husband and to be held and he refused. My heart broke that moment like you could not believe. So, when I see some of you guys staying with your significant other I know it is a difficult choice for you and I applaud you. I would like to grab those women in your lives and tell them what a wonderful man they have in their life–one who is staying through thick & thin, sickness & health. They do not appreciate what they have–they do not deserve you. You are heroes in my book. I do not mean to belittle the ladies here who are also doing the same thing but I think that there are alot of men “lurking” here but afraid to post. Please post–your feelings matter too & you feel the same pain and those women in your life surely do not appreciate you. So far my diagnosis is getting better and I’m not facing a death sentence any more but it is an uphill battle. Friends abandoned me when they found out but I held in my heart that my husband would stay and help me through this–we even shook hands on it but he too abandoned me in the worst way possible. So, to all the men (and the ladies too) who choose to stay don’t feel guilt for perhaps you see this alcohol as a sickness in your partner and you are staying to help. Whatever your choice to stay or leave is personal decision but if you stay you are to be applauded. I would have given everything to have had my husband stay with me through this and to see some of you guys doing just that. . . it makes me very envious of your wives and girlfriends because they do not realize how lucky they are!

  • Debbi

    To Add To My Post
    I did not post to make you sad today it is just a very bad day for me–today would have been my 17th wedding anniversary and instead of still being alive and enjoying it, I am packing to move. It is a sad day for me today.

  • Pez

    Debbie, Don’t allow yourself to think this way right now. Look at this day as your liberation day now! You can Think any way you wish to get you through this! CREATE YOUR OWN REALLIY you can. If you have to think a certain way about him without compassion right now, do it! He does NOT deserve your loving thoughts and reminissions of “how it could have been”. Excuse my French Debbie, but your XAH is an asshole! One of the meanest I have seen on this site and a sorry excuse for a human being!!! My anniversary of meeting “slug” My nickname for my XBA is this month near my B-day and 5 years of being in business at my salon and I am not going to let him ruin it! He is DELETED, SELF ANNULLED from my life as if it never happened! That is my thinking right now. I will not allow him to cause me any more pain. He’s a DICK! If churches in the past can change drinking tavern songs into hynms (negative into positive) so can we! You have NO obligation to think of him compassionately with how he has treated you!!! Absolutly NONE! And don’t feel guilty about it either.

  • Debbi

    Pez:
    What are you doing up so early (your time 3 hours behind me). You always come through for me. No, I do not feel guilty just great sorrow today as I toss things to the curb. You and everyone here never met me and yet you and everyone stayed more loyal to me than even my own family members. I was abandoned by my sister, son, husband because of what I am going through. I will be forever grateful to all of you here & especially Pez, Bruce & Tracy for all your support and if I mentioned everyone’s name here who helped me it would be a very long roll call. JC your site helped me more in these last 2 years than you will ever realize. In about a month I will also have to pack up the PC and may not have much access anymore to this site but I will always remember all of you even though I never met you. But for the next month–boy are you guys going to get an earful from me!

  • Pez

    I get up at 6 am Mountain time! Work today Sat. My Friday. Get a Smart phone Debbie you can access email and post!!! I do at work sometimes.
    I saw a post on facebook of a puppy, said, ” If you can’t eat it or play with it, Pee on it and walk away” LoL!!!

  • Debbi

    Pez:
    Tried the meetup & joined a knitting club over a year ago & guess what comes to my email a picture of my husband who had just joined the singles club posing in picture (don’t know who took it). We were still married. 3 months after the divorce the singles club he joined not me called me (how they got my cell???) wanting me to join. He gave my number so I might go to an event and see him with his new one—no thank was my answer and my phone was shut off. Turned house phone on and he starts giving it out to women who were “hitting on him” while we were married that he might had an affair with so off went the home phone. I am using a borrowed smart phone but I am located in between high tension wires and the Federal Aviation Center that scrambles air waves so it works very minimally here but maybe when I move, it will be better somewhere else & I’ll get the hang of typing with those itsy bitsy little keys!!!

  • Tyson Maclachlan

    Hi there! Would you mind if I share your blog with my zynga group? There’s a lot of people that I think would really enjoy your content. Please let me know. Thank you

  • Mike

    Here’s a new one to prove the selfishness of alcoholics.
    Between my marriage and being so unhappy at work, it took its toll the other day.
    I admitted myself to the ER for chest pain.
    My wife drove me.
    While having my ECG my wife mumbled nonsense and made no logic at all.
    I could not believe it. She was drunk.
    This is the person who is my emergency contact? Good grief.
    I almost put my ex-wife as my contact. I need a reliable person to make life-and-death decisions for me.
    I came home from work at lunch one day and she was on the couch, “not feeling well.”
    When I had texted her from my work, she never mentioned she wasn’t at work.
    So, now I know it’s been something she has been doing regularly.
    I even doubt her fidelity now.

  • Mike

    Breaking a relationship is always hard. It is an investment.
    Cheating is never acceptable and it an ender for me, however much I have invested.
    Drinkers live on excuses and WE gain hope in those same excuses.
    It’s a lose-lose situation with an alcoholic.
    We never have that true hope that we could have had with a non-alcoholic.
    We ignored the signs that were so evident for us to see.
    Just like the drinker justified the “one last drink,” we justified behavior we swore we’d never tolerate in a spouse.

  • Lois

    BRAVO Mike!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have cut a pasted so much of the statments, one liner points, advice, parts of stories into an ongoing summary i save add to and resave on my desk computer. i resource it regularly since it condensed into things directly affecting me and that have hit home for me personally. its give me strength and solace as the moods swing and each day is moving into the next ….God Bless you all!!!!! I hope you all find peace, joy, and contentment very soon!!!!

  • Jim from Chicago

    Hello everyone, this is Jim from Chicago, the author of this post. I wanted to first thank JC for publishing my story and again for this website. Secondly, thank all of you for your heart-felt comments, wisdom, and truths. I was amazed with the volume of response to my story. All of you shared so many relatable thoughts and opinions with me, I was literally stunned / scared / amazed / flattered and surprised at the same time. I read all of the comments and took much away, in terms of opinions, and was left with some very sobering points the majority of your comments speak to:
    – Overwhelmingly, many of you in very similar situations (but further along in terms of time) have all advised me to break ties before things get worse, before marriage, before children, before permanent ties to this very sad situation. Wise, very wise.
    – Many of you suggest support groups for friends and family of alcoholics. Great advice.
    – Many correctly remind me there is nothing I can do to fix the behavior of this person, only what I choose to deal with and what not. This point was made very clear.
    You are all correct. I wanted to give you a brief update about my story, since submitting this post for the site several months ago.
    I left the story just after a late-summer music festival. In short, the lying continued (of course), the odd behavior, disappearances, late-night arrivals at my house, unscheduled, in a drunken state started to begin. This girl still refused to deal with her past and ex, kept lying to see him and drink, without question always found reasons to keep drinking. We made it through September in a slowly dying series of arguments all centered around the lack of respect for our relationship, dishonesty, drinking, and general chaotic behavior.
    In early October, she came to the realization she was an alcoholic, and had a very meaningful conversation with me about the problems she faces, her fears of not understanding why, concerns about the future, and doubts about herself. For the first time, I believed her and lent her my opinions, including seeking treatment options from a medical professional specializing in addict, AA, possibly a 30 or 45 day rehab program, etc. At first, she was very willing to discuss and seek these options. She went home that day and had a similar conversation with her family. Jointly, they decided she should seek AA as her primary treatment. I advised her AA as a support group is a wonderful environment for alcoholics, but may not necessarily be the best place to start if her drinking is to the point where she needs rehab, and again suggested a trained therapist to guide her treatment appropriate to her story, age, background, family history, etc. While humoring me, she never came around to meeting with a therapist and slowly began the process of attending meetings without apparently taking them to heart. During October, she went several times, blew off several more each week, and in fact prepared for some AA meetings by staying home from work and drinking wine alone. I grew more and more distant from her, asked her why she was wasting her time in AA if she wasn’t planning on taking it seriously, and began to suggest we seek alternative people to share a relationship with.
    In November, things got worse. Her drinking continued to spin out of control and now that it’s officially “out of the closet” in terms of her family, she feels she has been labeled as such and routinely disappears from them, only to show up at my house fully intoxicated and refusing to contact her family. (at no point in any of this have we lived together). Besides this, her lying… inappropriate (borderline cheating) relationships with men have continued to happen. She continues to leave ties open to her past and ex boyfriend with secret phone calls, text messages, etc… all the while lying to me and saying these things don’t happen. They only appear to happen when I find out about them and she can’t talk her way out of it. I realized the underlying issue and fire within this female is the fact she is emotionally immature. Extremely emotionally immature, as in 29 yos going on 15. This shows itself through the fact she is constantly in need of attention from men, uses her physical attractiveness to get what she wants, has no sense of boundaries in life (what is proper to do, what isn’t), literally creates drama everywhere she goes, has no real control of her life, always blames factors outside of herself and her own actions instead of owning up to mistakes and taking positive action to rectify them, and beyond all else is a pathological liar in need of constant attention. ON TOP of this, there’s the whole alcohol problem which seems to act work to correct her issues as much as gasoline will put out a forest fire.
    About a week ago, I realized I had enough after another weekend of arguing, dealing with the fall-out from her behavior from the week before, and of course senseless drinking. I ended things on a Sunday evening, telling her I had simply had enough and could no longer deal with this. That I had wished her the best and hope she found the treatment she needed. By Monday afternoon, she seemed to have missed my messages or voicemails, and acted as if things were fine. After disappearing that evening for a few hours (non-responsive to texts and phone calls), she came back to text me and say “we don’t work, it’s for the best if we go our own ways”. Realizing this emotionally stunted narcissist would not let things go unless she were the one to end things, I simply ignored the text and let things be.
    I’m finally out of this insane drama, and do wish her the best…. But boy oh boy, despite thinking I was a well-rounded, strong, and experienced human being able to deal with most relationship situations, I had no clue what I was getting into. This person would be a fantastic case-study for a university of PhD candidates who wish to study the correlation of emotional immaturity and alcoholism……… thanks to all of you for your help. In better news, I am working on repairing bad decisions I’ve made… such as the way my story began..with the person I left of almost 12 years. We had our issues over the years, but none of them can hold a candle to the insanity I’ve lived over the past 11 months.

    Take care and God bless you all,

    Jim

  • C

    Jim:

    How can I ever thank you for your most recent post. Honestly, I can relate to almost everything you wrote. In my case, I am the female, and I was seeing someone who was newly retired. He hid the drinking from me except for two beers when we went out for dinner. All of a sudden, there was a beer on his placemat with breakfast I prepared. From that moment forward, all hell broke loose. The lying, deceiving, etc. The constant need for attention – he was texting other women when I would spend time at his house.

    I, too, am educated and have two very successful sons who never met the bf. They are not drinkers, neither am I, and I knew my sons would never approve. The immaturity level is absurd, and when we were with close friends, they would let me know I had my hands full. They were starting to see what I was not able to tell them. People don’t believe you if they don’t see it for themselves.

    Your post is remarkable. How can men and women A’s be so much alike? Thank you for sharing. You have helped me and many, I am sure. Take good care.

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