JC: Olga, thanks for submitting your questions about what does the true nature of someone addicted to alcohol look like. We have had many discussions on this site surrounding this very subject. In simple terms, if the person’s drinking habits are causing problems in your relationship and in their individual life, there’s a good chance you have a real alcoholic on your hands. I have included some links below your submission to articles on our site that will help you understand what a real problem drinker might act like.
Please feel free to leave a comment below.
Submitted by: Olga
Can you tell me the difference between a ‘problem drinker’ or alcohol abuser and an addict (alcoholic)? I am confused as to the difference. My husband shows some signs of having an addictive personality, lack of regard of consequences, risk taking (has driven drunk) and drinking alone etc… but at the same time, when I am around, he can respect limits. These upsetting incidents only seem to happen when I am at work as he has a day off (He can also respect limits for the sake of his work). I do not wish to underplay the seriousness of his issue as I am fully aware that either way he is playing Russian roulette with his life, but at the same time, how I deal with this issue? I will eagerly await your guidance…
JC: Olga, you will find a few answers to your questions about what does a real alcoholic look like here:
Personality Of An Alcoholic
Social Drinking and The Alcoholic
Ben, With all due respect, having serenity and being passive are not the same thing. As I read your post, I could hear the audience in my subconscious laughing uproariously. Trust me, passive is the last word anyone would use to describe me. I wish you well. It took me over 13 years of bashing my very unhappy but self righteous head against the wall before I found what worked for me. Everyone’s situation is different, in spite of the similarities.
Karen2 – “It took one moment of insight for me to realize that I was so busy judging and condemning my AH, that I had made myself a saint. I really had. From my ivory tower, I had become quite unlovable in his eyes I think.”
Brilliant insight. And one that I can totally relate to. Thank you for that.
I don’t consider myself a saint, and I’m not in an ivory tower. However, I do have expectations for a relationship, in the absence of which, there is no relationship: love, companionship, intimacy, support, gentleness, kindness, sacrifice, etc. I am strong enough to say that MY alcoholic is unable to deliver any of these things, and I deserve them, as I am free from addictions and other major character flaws and I am able to provide them to someone that deserves them. That is not self righteousness, it is simple logic. I may be beaten down, but thank God I am not beaten down enough for your sentiment to make any sense to me. The voices in MY head are now laughing- I THOUGHT I was codependent!!
In Al-Anon we learn to keep our expectations low with alcoholics and even ourselves if we’ve been heavily afflicted by the dis-ease. This quite often generational dis-ease is physically, mentally, and spiritually compulsive and imo only through a Recovery process can one untangle the complexities … slowly … One Day At A Time … In the past five years I have learned that having too high expectations of my qualifiers, (even when I think I deserve them), set me up for disappointment and resentment, two things that now get in the way of my serenity, and I have the choice to Accept things the way they are: Life on Life’s terms … and if I look even closer and deeper there is an array of choices before me that allows me to live a full life while accepting that the alcoholic has the same free choice to live their life as he/she pleases … besides the promise of serenity, Al-Anon has shown me the freedom of choice … the most amazing thing is that I actually and truly Love the qualifiers that used to “make me” so angry and beside myself in the past … detachment with Love is another indispensable tool that I picked up in Al-Anon … and the Peace that it has given me is … priceless.
Ben, Have a nice day. Karen
diddo Ben. Iagree. Self richousness has nothing to with it. we dont want it! If others want to settle or stay no condemnation here. But you could find someone to return your love insted of just taking it and tollerationg them. just remember, we create our own reallity.
Just to clarify, in my posts I spoke of myself, only.
I would never judge any participant on this
site. Never.Karen
Karen, I apologize if I came off wrong. I am truly, truly happy you have found a winning approach for yourself, and care enough to share it with me in an effort to try to help. We’re all under tremendous daily stress because of what we have to live with- some of us are further along in our journey and better equipped emotionally – I can honestly say that I am not one of those people, but it seems that you are. I am in the infancy stage, and its probably due to my stubbornness. I am the happy, life of the party, easy to make friends type, and I just don’t understand why I should live with this insanity, so, I understand your perspective, and I applaud you for your personal achievement, I just cannot accept that reasoning. I’ve beaten myself up enough for 5 years, and to a point, I think some people cannot grasp how truly ugly and abusive an alcoholic woman can be. I am just starting to crawl out of the self-loathing, guilt ridden stage, and I cannot accept anything that points the finger back at me, or it will undo any progress I have made. I appreciate your feedback, and I thank you for sharing it! We’re a pretty close community on AF, and while we will have different approaches and outcomes, were all in this together. 🙂 Ben.
Can I add my 2 cents here?
Everyone is at different stages and let’s face it living with different but similar A’s. It’s great Karen2 that you found your serenity with Al Anon & when I went what jumped out at me at every meeting was “take what you want and discard the rest”. It helped me learn to focus on me. I found some helpful things and I am glad it is working with you. But I tend to be more like Ben & Pez and want to be more pro-active in my approach. I tend to be a problem-solver. I was going to a counselor back then at the same time & I discussed this very issue and he said get this book for those that have a hard time sitting with serenity when sometimes you want to just pop this A with your frying pan–“Verbal Judo”. It is the book written by the man who trains police officers to diffuse situations without drawing their guns–guess what? a lot of the same principles from Al Anon in here too. So this way I was able to try & get that serenity while at the same time not feeling I was nothing but a doormat waiting for life to happen to me. I applaud all of you like I say all the time, whether you chose to stay or leave or how you chose to handle it because although similar each of our situations are so unique and listening to all of you has really opened my eyes in the last year and a half–Thank you all.
Dear Ben,
I personally agree with you about the ‘difficulty’ of what Al Anon asks of us. I find it morally repugnant that ‘I’ am to ‘defer’, ‘bow down’, ‘accept’ the bad behavior from the alcoholic. I believe it is ‘unjust’ and ‘unfair’ and ‘a lie’ of a way to act around someone. I also find ‘the way’ I have to lie around the psychopaths at my workplace is also repugnant. I also find the large number of people at work ‘who step on’ and ‘demean’ others to Climb to the Top repugnant. I never know quite how to reconcile myself with The World.
I don’t think that ‘the amount of Humility’ asked of me by Al Anon to be anymore then I am asked of at work. Its ‘strange’ to have to ‘be humble’ when you are at home where you are supposed to be relaxed. The one issue is that people ‘who live with alcoholics’ never get to relax. We are ‘at work’ when at work and when at home.
I know that our life here is ‘to have suffering.’ If you don’t have suffering, you should reconsider every act you make and have made in your life because of what that means about you. Usually people ‘who have no suffering’ are the Precise Ones who ‘hurt others.’ You don’t hurt because ‘you are one of the ones who takes advantage of, uses, pushes and treats people with callousness.’ I suffer enough to know that I am not one of these. I think my Faith and ‘new scientific info’ about folks who have died and are brought back by CPR, pretty much assists. Be good and live your life treating others well. Even if it seem someone is abusing you, you aren’t held accountable for the actions of another, only your own.
To all,
I just wanted to share why alanon doesn’t work for everyone. I agree with Ben that not everyone can win in their relationship with an A by alanon teachings. I literally tried everything to stAy married to my husband. To this day I feel somewhat lost without him, and I know I will probably stay single forever because my A convinced me so well that I won’t ever find someone else. I feel like I will stay single. I accept that, eventhough I fear being alone. I say that to illustrate that eventhough I tried family week while A was in rehab, attended alanon and tried everything I learned there, and many other things. I still could not find serenity with the serenity prayer. I agree with Ben that things are more difficult when children are involved. In my opinion kids make staying with an A harder because my kids don’t understand serenity prayers yet. Or alanon. What they did understand was how living with the daddy/A made them feel. The 7 year old, 3 year old, and 7 month old got to see and hear their dad get drunk after failing out of rehab twice. They saw him push me down. They saw me tear my purse when I tried to leave the house with the kids when he was drinking. They witnessed my sadness (eventhough I tried to hide it) when he pawned my wedding rings for more beer money without my consent. They witnessed having to leave our house in the middle of the night because it was scary at home when dad drank. They saw how I worked overtime because the A had 9 different unstable jobs during our marriage. They saw him throw up, pass out, hide bottles. I could continue with more. However I feel I’ve made my point. So my next point is….I tried alanon to the point where I pretty much lost all emotion and sense. How could I have done the alanon plan differently or said the serenity prayer better to offset the things out A put us through?
Clarification:
They saw the daddy/A tear my purse when we tried to leave.
BTW: now that daddy/A is gone from our home, we are finding serenity. I must also admit that I am not perfect and never have thought I was high above the A. I didn’t look down on him. I always tried to build him up and walk on eggshells around him. So I don’t think alanon worked for me because if I had stayed I have no doubt I would have probably ended up dead.
For some of us Love is not enough to stay. It’s about what we want and how we want to feel in the presence of our significant other. I personally want to feel loved, I want to see action that proves that love (this is the definition of love to me), I don’t want to make love to a drunk to not be remembered the next AM, I want plans and special occations to be cherished and remembered not ruined, I don’t want to see my guy stumble and act like a fool and speak stupid shit (turn off to me), I don’t want my calls to go unanswered cause he’s getting drunk only to have a barrage of drunk texts later on, I don’t want locked out of the house and made to go sleep somewhere else because of abuse, I don’t want to watch my special one destroy his life, himself. I want a better future than this and more not mentioned. I don’t want a lifetime of Al-anon meetings and counseling. Believe it or not the pain will pass and a new love will come and I will be greatful I made that tough decision in my past. This is what I want. What do you want? What do you REALLY want? YOU are important too!!!!!
Children do not benefit from staying in an abusive marriage, in fact they can be harmed.
Kristi, you will find love again. Believe in yourself, you ARE beautiful! And, I sincerely believe there is someone out there for everyone. Stay open to the possibility! Don’t shut yourself off.
Deb – I agree with you about Al Anon. I know it works for many people and I think that’s wonderful. But it’s not a perfect fit for everyone. I went a few times and just didn’t connect with any of it. I too find it very difficult to just accept the A’s behavior. And I never did. Which was certainly a contributing factor in the how and why the relationship ended. The new girl “accepted” him as he was, whereas I was always trying to change him, so he never felt like he was good enough for me. And he wasn’t. And feeling that way did make me feel like I was better than him and that’s probably how I treated my A. It was an unhealthy relationship that was doomed from the start. I just wish I had found a website like this years ago so I would have understood everything sooner.
Kristi: You did the right thing leaving. You and your children were at risk. Al Anon never advocates staying in such a situation and if that’s what you were hearing at your meetings then it is a good thing you did not stay and try to find serenity which probably would never have happened. Do not fear being alone–you have your children, you are young and someone better I am positive will come along for you. Your life is getting better now.
Elisabeth: You too refused to accept the behavior and realized the relationship was not good–not because you tried to change him but because you knew you deserved better. The new one is not accepting of him, she just has not see the ugly part yet and soon she will be in your shoes. You were smart enough to realize that what you were doing in the relationship was having no affect and you were not being listened to or respected.
Pez: You basically have it totally correct because you are saying what we all need to hear–actions speak louder than words and if you are hearing one thing out of their mouth but they are treating you in the opposite you go by their actions not their words–they are in effect telling you what they are.
You are all 3 beautiful, smart women and I know you all tried and were caregivers but realized it was a one way street with your significant other and you all deserve better. I am positive all 3 of you will soon find the happiness you so richly deserve!
Is it truly better for my daughter to be in a divorced home? I tried to go sleep in the basement and it hit her pretty hard. I’m still wondering if divorce is best for her. I know the stress is killing me.
Debbi- what about me? I’m not a beautiful woman, but how about some love this way? 🙂
Ben go to “Empowered Recovery” site and order the book for $10.00. There is a large section on children in it (their exposer to alcoholism) I think it will clarify some things for you!
It’s easier for men to find a woman than visa versa Ben. Just be a lot pickier and wiser the next time–ie Learn from your mistakes and “test” them for a long time.
Elizabeth, I tried to get my A to stop drinking as well and I don’t think I am better than him and I don’t believe you did either. In fact I felt equal to him in the eyes of God and as a human being. I believe God values every human life and one is not better than the other–WE JUST KNOW THAT IS NOT THE WAY TO LIVE AND OUR WAY OF LIFE IS BETTER! To live life on it’s own terms. It doesn’t mean you thought you were better! But they chose not to receive the help they so desperately need and we can do nothing about that choice except to make a better choice for ourselves.
Ben,
It is only for you to decide if you should get a divorce or not. Sometimes not getting a divorce is better and vice versa. In my opinion the best thing it to try everything 100% before deciding to divorce. It helped me a lot to know I had tried everything I could, so that I had minimized any regrets I would be left to deal with In the long term. The last marriage counselor we saw said something to me when we were deep in our therapy that ultimately became a gem of advice I didn’t recognize till later. He said “Sometimes it’s better for kids to be from a broken home than a dysfunctional home”. I don’t believe that is true for every child, but it was for my kids. For example, In addition to my previously posted examples, my A would egg the kids on to belittle me and he laughed with joy when the kids disrespected me. I remember one time in July my son wanted to use a super soaker in our house. I had told him no and explained why. My A helped my son fill up the super soaker instead and encouraged him to get me. My son got me alright, I and my iphone was ruined. My A laughed mischievously. There becomes a point that that kind of destruction is no longer helpful to kids in my opinion. I thought to myself after that incident…if this is how the A is parenting our 7 year old now, how will he be when he is 16, 18, etc. Only you can decide for yourself what to do. No one but you can answer that with the help of a counselor and more importantly, with lots of prayer. I work at a hospital and began spending my lunch breaks sitting in the chapel. I filled out many anonymous prayer requests there. I still do. I feel great peace when I have spent time there.
I can relate to both sides, for I did divorce him, but for me, I was wanting to be loved and have that “relationship” side of a marriage, that I bought back into his lies of “everything will be different”, I will change, I do love you, I do want to make love to you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, everything he knew I wanted to hear, I believed him and came back and re-married him. (Needless to say, I wish I had of came across this site before I did that )Because of what he showed me when he was in his “chase” mode with her, with all the things he was doing wine-and-dinning, sending flowers, traveling 8 hrs just to see her for a week-end, offering to take her on a cruise, take her places, sitting and telling me how much he wanted to be with her, how she was “the perfect woman”…… he showed me he could do the things that showed how much he wanted to be with someone…. all of that and yet once he got me back home…… nothing, he don’t even take me out to dinner…. my problem is…. he could do it for her but not for the woman he claims he wants to spend the rest of his life with ……. what’s wrong with that picture ? To me, if you stay with the A….. you are making a choice to accept their behavior and just live without the love side of a marriage. It’s like saying to them…. ok your an alcoholic, I understand, and it’s ok the way you treat me….. in my opinion… no it’s not ok the way you treat me. I deserve better treatment from the man that is supposed to love me…. A marriage consist of working together to make that marriage work, not a one sided marriage. All he wants to do is come home from work, sit and get drunk and allow me to handle everything, yet never show me the love I deserve. I don’t mind running the home, paying the bills, all of the things as that, but why am I supposed to be the passive one and allow him to treat me the way he does and say ok honey you just sit and have your beers while I am just sitting here on the outside looking in. It seems to me, and I may be wrong….. For the A …. life is all about themselves, what they want, your just the care taker for them. If I stay, I have to resign myself to the fact that this is the way my life is going to be…. with no love, no relationship, nothing from him …. when he proved himself he can be a man and step up to the plate so to speak when it’s what he wants…. it’s not ok with me. He knows he has me between a rock and a hard place because I was out on my own, in my apartment, yes I was just getting by, but I gave all that up for him and he knows now financially I am not stable enough now to get back out on my own, because I used what I had to save his butt and save the home and save his butt from losing everything because I felt we would be “starting over together and building a life together”, I just feel used is all the feelings I have right now at this point. I am stuck here for the time being in a loveless marriage for now. Not what I envisioned my older years to be that’s for sure. Thanks for listening everyone.
Pez…… very well said !
Did the people who say Al-anon didn’t work for them get sponsors and actually work the 12 steps? Just curious. For those that say Al-anon did not give them the palpable tools to deal with their qualifier, that is essentially what the sponsor is for.
Yes, got a couple of sponsors. One was even a recovered alcoholic. Didnt help.
Yes I have had the same sponsor since May 2012. I have been doing the steps since July 2012 and attending alanon. I will always continue to work on myself through alanon, sponsor, and working steps. All cannot be fixed with these things however, as I can only control myself.
dont want alanon, dont want a sponcer, dont want that life at all!!!!
want a normal good relationship & no need for alanon.
Ben
I agree with what u have posted. What they are telling you is to focus on what makes you happy. I see now after 32 years of marriage what I was trying to get away from. 3 times leaving n coming back believing the a words. You definitely have to do no contact.
Ben
This will effect your daughter. I see now how it affects or affected my sons. They keep my husband lie s. My adult son admitted that to me. Told him his father was lying to me n he said what are you going to do about it. Smug also will deny. They will keep the merry go round going. Because that is what they see.
To Ben–A lotta love coming your way–right back at ya! You are strong & loving to stay always remember that. Now think logically. If you divorce your wife, who is likely to get custody? This is where “us ladies” have the advantage so see an attorney first & show the documentation you have so far. If you divorce you need full guardianship and custody. Do not leave her there with her mother since it is obvious she is deteriorating. I raised my son as a single parent. You will have to ask him if he would have rather had 2 bickering parents but let me say that I had the most wonderful 16 years raising him. He got to grow up on a farm with chickens, horses, safe neighborhood in a school where his class size was 8! Lord only knows what kind of life he would have had if I had stayed with his father. Then stupid me went and re-married much later only to land where I am now. Think long and hard–if a parent dies do we question whether the remaining parent can do this? Do we question if this child with have problems? We accept it and if they have one good parent with a good home life most all do as well and better than one with 2 bickering parents. Do you homework Ben before you leap & document. That is what I keep saying whether you chose to leave or stay, every one’s reasons can be different and you leaving might mean seeing less of your daughter, you are doing a noble thing. Make sure to get your plan then if you have to, then your plan is in place–a plan to stay and a plan to leave.
Ben, here is a short excerpt from “Empowered Recovery” Book I mentioned. they take a firm stance and talk about much more but I cant print more than this due to copyrights:
Short of the alcoholic’s complete mental and physical recovery, you the nonalcoholic are in the best
position—indeed, in the only position—to shield and protect your children from the harm of an alcoholic
relationship. You are their only hope!
Up to this time, you may have been reluctant to leave a dysfunctional alcoholic relationship for reasons you deem
valid. Your reasons notwithstanding, please read the following statement with all the intensity and passion I intend it:
YOU HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN FROM AN ABUSIVE ALCOHOLIC
RELATIONSHIP FIRST AND FOREMOST—BEFORE YOURSELF, AND CERTAINLY BEFORE THE ALCOHOLIC.
IF THE ALCOHOLIC WILL NOT RECOVER, YOU MUST TAKE ACTION!
YOUR CHILDREN ARE THE ONLY TRUE VICTIMS IN THIS SITUATION AND THEY ARE COUNTING ON
YOU TO PROTECT THEM FROM FURTHER ABUSE. IF YOU DO NOT PROTECT THEM, YOU ARE CULPABLE
FOR ANY PHYSICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL HARM TO THEM.
If you as an adult decide to remain in an abusive alcoholic relationship, that’s your business, and you will suffer the
consequences. But your children are victims to this situation; they are unable to exert the Human Right of Free Will in
this matter because of their age. They look to you for protection, and if you don’t protect them, then who will? The
answer is “No one,” and consequently they continue, burdened with a heavy existence, and lost in their own private
hell of codependent-alcoholic dysfunction.
Would you like to meet another lost child? Yes? Then go and take a long look in the mirror. Is the image of life you
see there the same image you envision for your children? No? Then take positive action to give your children a fighting
chance for a better future! You may not leave an abusive alcoholic relationship for yourself, but for God’s sake, leave
for your children! You have a moral obligation to do so!
Consider further the potential consequences of the alternative. A few years ago when my son was 12 years old, my
relationship with my alcoholic wife was at the height of dysfunction. One day, she had been drinking and once again,
we were arguing. I went to check on and reassure my son, when I noticed he was keeping the pocketknife I had given
to him under his pillow. I asked him why he had it there, and he told me it was there in case he had to protect himself
or me from his mother.
Now, there had been no previous physical abuse, but to find out that he was in fear for his safety as well as mine,
stabbed at my heart as with that knife. I calmly and reassuringly told him, “Son, your mother loves you very much and
would never do anything to hurt you or me.” I swear it was not two minutes later that she walked into the room with a Knife………………..
It has been my experience that Al-Anon 12 Step Work/Practice is a spiritual walk … we say that it is a gentle Program of attraction not promotion … if it does resonate with you, please attend at least 6 meetings before deciding if it is for you or not … in addition to meetings, as mentioned earlier, the guidance of a sponsor is very helpful in navigating your Recovery … new ways of thinking can be found in the conference approved literature (CAL) … applying what you learn from the sharing of the experience, strength, and hope of others, Steps, Slogans, and literature becomes the practice that you apply to the family dis-ease of alcoholism and well as other areas of your life. If you do it, you get it … and it works if you work it! 🙂
I did not care for Al Anon.
It felt cultish and everything in their world revolved around Al Anon.
It was too obsessive.
One addict in the family is enough, thank you.
Sorry, but “spiritual” without Jesus is just ineffective.
Mike:
I tried Al anon. There were two people there I knew well who were successful and creative in the community. They were trying to stay in marriages despite what seemed to be difficult circumstances. The few others were constantly complaining about their situations – nothing was offered to resolve the issue, so it was week to week of the same thing. I was confused – thought the program was going to ease my stress with solutions but it did not. I quit going.
When people have been in business for a while, there are steps you can take to resolve whatever comes up and information to handle future unexpected situations. I didn’t get any feeling of support – felt more alone.
I have found more answers here with these wonderful people. Thank you all!
I concur- alcoholics friend has been much for helpful to me. There is no time for people to share at al anon. It’s a bunch of prescribed reading and chanting. People in our shoes need friendship, communication, and support. I can read a book out loud at home in front of a mirror. I can honestly say that reading two posts here from readers is more informative than an entire al anon class, which is two hours long plus driving, parking, etc. I’ve tried al anon groups in California, Boston, Phoenix, and eden prairie, minnesota.
I guess I get the best of both worlds with my Al-Anon home group and JC’s alcoholicsfriend.com … grateful for both … 🙂
Married 32 years to an A, walking thru recovery with my. 25 year old son who is alcoholic.I tried al- anon, very nice people, very dedicated people but I just can’t commit the kind of time these people invest in it. I started feeling like the people attending were addicted to the meetings. I just wanted to learn what I needed to so to be the healthiest person I could be and move on. I didn’t want it to become my identity. The same person always seemed to have the floor, too. It was good short term. Now I’m moving on with my life.
I should have said formerly married to an A.
Ben,
You rudely dismissed Karen2’s comments about being helped by Al-Anon, because it’s not what you wanted to hear. And what gives you the right to call anyone “a fool” because they are doing what you don’t think you would do? You have absolutely no idea what prompts someone to stay in a difficult marriage. Perhaps it’s because they took their marriage vow seriously and really meant “until we are parted by death.” Perhaps divorce isn’t an option. Perhaps the alcoholic spouse has other medical conditions or disabilities. Perhaps they still love their spouse.
You certainly don’t have the answers, Ben, or you wouldn’t be on this site. You’re here right now because you can’t decide to leave or stay, despite the fact that you are “a strong type-A personality” and you know how to “plan, initiate, execute, and control.” You are looking for help and yet you feel justified to cut down and berate what has helped many others.
If you really knew anything about Al-Anon, you would know it’s NOT a passive program for passive people. It’s a program of work and change and control. But it’s about working on me, changing me, and controlling me; because I absolutely cannot change or control someone else. Once I begin to change myself and my responses, the things around me change, too. I begin to see things differently and see different options. Maybe I become strong enough to walk away. Maybe I become strong enough to stay. The choices are mine, but I do have choices.
The pain of being in an alcoholic marriage is the same for all of us, Ben, and it’s also different for all of us. My husband had been sober for 18 years before he started drinking again. I had never known him to drink. He also became addicted to narcotics and used criminal means to obtain them. The addictions took over his life, and the chaos took over mine. I did not want to give up on my marriage, so I stayed. I went to Al-Anon, where I learned to take care of myself and let go of the chaos and drama. I learned to go ahead and live my life, to do the things I enjoyed. I got better. Eventually, I left my husband, after 11 years of the drinking and drugging. But when I left, I had absolutely no regrets. I knew that I had done everything I could do to make it work. Not everyone would stay for 11 years–some would leave after 1 or 2 years; others would stay for 25. Those are our personal choices.
One more thing, when I got to Al-Anon, I thought accepting something was the same as “approving” it, that it meant I was okay with it. Absolutely not! I have to accept the weather because I can’t change it. I don’t have to like it, but I have to accept it. If I don’t accept it, what happens? Does the weather change? No. Do I become frustrated and miserable? Yes. But I do have choices. When it rains, I can curse and carry on and be miserable, or I can get my umbrella and take care of business. It’s up to me.
Diane,
Perhaps you should read the entire thread and then reread your post. I could go on and on refuting your points, but I don’t really care to tell you anything about myself or how my beautiful 4 year old daughter have suffered at the hands of an angry drunk. It seems to me that you are gender biased and self righteous, otherwise if you truly knew the history of what the drunk has done not only to me, but a precious, innocent child, and The roles were reversed and I was a woman and my wife a man, you would tell me no woman should deal with abuse and no child should be raised by a drunk that drank the entire pregnancy, Breastfed for 31/2 years, caused my daughter to have her teeth pulled, was arrested showing up drunk at daycare, has two adult children that don’t talk to her but that beg me to free Olivia from a lifetime of torment, etc., you would maybe have a different opinion.
FYI- Karen2 has been a wonderful help to me on another post, she has the intellect to realize just that al anon doesn’t work for me, it doesn’t mean she has to hate or ridicule me. In my posts I stated I am happy she has found serenity and that it has worked for her, and I even apologized for coming off wrong in the beginning. Like I said, perhaps you should read the entire blog.
Ben- I am so sorry for what you and sweet Olivia have been through. I too struggled with staying or leaving. One day, after 32 years of marriage to an AH, a light went on in my head- after a heated argument the night before that I can’t take care of our home by myself, . I said to myself, ” I CAN’T finish out my life like this. There has to be better, even if I am alone”. I left that day with my dog. My children are adults. They too watched there dad lie and be unavailable, missing out on a strong dad relationship. My AH was a functioning A for many years up until the final 5 years I was married to him. I feel like I missed a lot of fun years with my children when they were young because I was constantly trying to make a normal life out of an insane life. When I left, I waited and heard nothing. After 2-1/2 months when he resolved to do NOTHING( what a gut wrenching feeling to know that alcohol was more important than me!) I filed for divorce. I have grieved the loss of the dream to grow old with him, to enjoy family holidays, grandchildren, a 50th wedding anniversary. I will never have those. But what I have is PEACE! I also found a new life- a wonderful new husband who is so good to me and isn’t alcoholic- a normal relationship where we talk things over, share dreams, enjoy life. Leaving was hard but the new life I gained is so worth it! I’m 54 and I am so excited about what is ahead for me and my family! God bless you, Ben and Olivia. You are so worth having peace and serenity and safety. No one can tell you what to do or how to do it. Al -anon wasn’t for me . I found it to be another endless cycle of dread. That’s my opinion and if anyone wants to attack it that is your right. But I will not own your opinion. I will detach myself from others opinion because no one has walked in my shoes. I will however choose to take the parts that are helpful to me. I am my own person! I am no longer choose to be part of the crazy cycle of alcoholism. I didn’t cause it, I can’t cure it, I can’t control it.
Thanks, Susan,
It is nice to hear stories like yours. No one believes that I will leave her. They think I’m just going to keep complaining and not change anything. It is a very tough decision. I’ve even had pastors tell me I need to leave and protect Olivia and myself. I’m certain she will not change anything and that she will continue to choose alcohol over all of her relationships. That is very hard to accept, given the amount of effort I have put into this relationship and the fact Livi is very close to her mother. Thanks again for your insight. I truly appreciate it. 🙂 ben
Ben,
Where did you ever get the idea that I think you should stay in your current relationship? My God, I would never tell you to stay, but it’s not up to me to tell you to leave either. (And I did read the entire thread.) Your daughter’s suffering is perhaps your greatest reason to leave. As an adult, I can decide to endure a lot of bad behavior and bad treatment, but I do not have the right to force others to endure it. When children are involved in abusive situations, separation is not just an option, it’s necessary. And I’m not gender-biased, Ben. A while back a man came into the Al-Anon meeting that I attend and shared that he had invited a woman to move in with him and he now knew she was an alcoholic, and he was beginning to suffer for it. It took everything I had not to run up to him and say, “Get out while you can! Save yourself! Get out now before it’s too late and you’re really sucked in!” But it wasn’t for me to do that. He wouldn’t have listened anyway. We all have to walk our own path and learn our own lessons. You deserve happiness, peace, love, and affection . . . we all do.
My response to you came out of the fact that your comments sounded like you were “tooting your own horn” about how strong, capable, and take charge you are; while “dissing” Al-Anon and anyone who claims to be benefitted by it as being “passive” and “a fool.” (Your own words.) The fact is, regardless of our qualities, strength, or personality, alcoholism is BIGGER and STRONGER. It takes help to make the decisions we have to make and it takes time to recover from the effects that it brings to us. Trust and security are two things that will take a long time to regain, if ever completely.
Go get the help you and your daughter need. Maybe it won’t be Al-Anon. Religion works for some people; it doesn’t work for me. Different strokes for different folks. But let’s not judge whatever works for anybody. God knows, there is room for ANY and ALL forms of help when confronting alcoholism.
BTW, I understand your difficulty in making the decision to leave. That’s why I shared that I remained in the active alcoholic relationship for 11 years before I finally decided I had to go. Interestingly, once I made that decision, I never changed my mind and I never looked back. I still have an amicable relationship with my ex; in fact, I’m his legal power of attorney, because he doesn’t have anyone else! He literally burned all his bridges. But I don’t have to look in the face of alcoholism everyday. I made my choices, and he is making his.
Good luck to you and Olivia, Ben.
Ben – I also wanted to tell you that I rely feel that my leaving actually saved his life. Even, though our relationship was basically tanked at the time, I consciously remember telling my parents that perhaps this would move him to get the help he needed. If I stayed, life would remain status quo for him. By me stepping out of our dance it threw everything into a different and uncomfortable mess for him. Today he is somewhat more stable- still drinks – but having to survive on his own. He is starting to build relationships with his children without my support. While it is still sad, I am regaining lost happiness. My new husband, Jim, is an amazing Christian man. The most amazing thing is the way we met: Match.com!!! He sent me a message- I sent him a reply with Jeremiah 29:11 attached, For I know the plans I have for you says The Lord. plans to prosper you, to give you a hope and a future”. When Jim read my message he was holding a coffee mug his kids had given him and on it was imprinted the same verse!! He almost fell out of his chair. God can restore the years the locust have eaten. Just move in faith and He will give you success.(Proverbs)
Thanks, Susan and Diane. I guess maybe the light at the end of the tunnel isn’t a train after all? 🙂
Ben, I am at the beach for the weekend w nothing
but a handheld gizmo and index finger to
work with.
Far too tedious to attempt to write
for very long.
I’ll be back in touch, soon.
Meanwhile, consider taking Olivia
out for a bit of fun?
Invite the wife, but go wo her
if you have to.
Stay in touch, tell us something
good. Karen
It’s hard isn’t it guys and dolls. It’s heart wrenching. You all know how I feel from my recent posts but part inside of me still has a love for my XBA and day dream of him knocking on my door begging for help a broken spirit that would lead to salvation for his soul. But I know how bad it is and the chances of a miracle are very small. I have to force myself often to move on, move forward, be brave and keep walking further and further away from chaos and a damaged mind. I’m tired of being strong. I want someone I can sink into his lap and feel safe and just say Ahhhhhhhhhh thank you! I always prayed for Bet-Shalom which means a House of Peace in Hebrew. I need that. Love and heart felt thoughts for all of you in every one of your situations. Peace!
We all have the common thread of lives with an A….. I can see each day that I come here and read your post how much being married to an A has changed my whole life, my health, everything. I look back and think of the years gone by that I have lost so much of myself for this man whom only thinks of himself. When I first started reading post on here and how an A acts, why they do the things they do, things they say and why…… it was like a light bulb went off in my head. I literally said to myself that day ” Now you have validation of what my gut has been telling me all along”. I can’t control him, I can’t make him love me, I can’t make him want me, I can’t make him stop drinking. He loves his alcohol and I am only someone to keep him company while he gets drunk and be his caregiver, maid, and secretary. It’s hard to sit by and watch a human being that I know at one time was a loving caring person. The happiness he could have it all but he makes the decision to keep drinking. It’s a chemical addiction, plus mix that with OCD. Having been in the medical field for 15 years allows me to know the clinical side of it all. I guess that’s one reason I stay with him. It’s hard to walk away from someone you still love even with their addiction. I trust in God’s promises and my faith keeps me going. I guess I keep having that little tiny bit of hope for a miracle to happen for him. Thanks for listening everyone.
Hi guys,
Myself and my kids were kicked out the house at the beginning of this year by my alcoholic husband because I fought against the alcohol. In the past few months, he has taken no interest in the kids, always has a new woman on his arm, has lied to me, cheated on me and played me for a fool. I have totally detached, cut off all contact and have let him just get on with it. Well guess what? today I have been bombarded with emails about how he misses us and still loves me and he is so sorry and he”s realised now what he”s lost etc….. please can I give him a chance to prove himself to me. OMG!! why is he doing this? Do you think he is being sincere or is it because he’s sort of hit a rock bottom (not at the bottom yet)and wants to use us to make himself feel better? I told him that if he ever wants myself or the kids back in his life, he needs to get into a program and he agreed. mmmmm!! talk is cheap though isn’t it? I have just gained my serenity. Do I really want to allow him back in??
Hi Brigitte, All I can say is CAUSION!!!!!! As you have seen on this site MANY have taken their A’s back to be extremely disappointed, abused again, back to the same BULL SHIT!!! You must draw a HARD LINE! Don’t live with him, stay separated physically and emotionally. He MUST take charge of his own recovery and prove it to you. Don’t rush into intimacy either. You must be “a bitch” concerning these promises. Don’t get your hopes up. My uncle said, “addicts have no right to promise anything” remember that–this addiction, as we know, is severe.
He must get into a program, get a sponsor for when he is challenged to rely on–not you, your OUT. You must put all responsibility for this on him. You’ve been through enough. You will do NO counselling, taking him to meetings, you will not be his sponsor. Hide your big compassionate heart and tell him to prove it to you and your son. you can’t show venerability–the addict in him will take advantage of that. Don’t wrap yourself up in his recovery, Live your life!
I thought my XAB learned the 1st time with the ghetto woman, took him back, 1 year later he is back with the low-life HO!! They recommend 1 full year of sobriety to prove–Do you want to give 1 more year of your life? You can do whatever you want, free will, but you may be wasting your time. And don’t forget there is always a chance of relapse at any time 1, 5, 10, years. You never know.
Brigitte:
Ditto what Pez said & to prove she knows & what all of us know about starting back up again with your AH get the book “Tough Love” by Dr. Charles Dobson. Written a long time ago & still being sold today because his principles are so true & helpful. If you decide to save your marriage that will be terrific but set up certain demands & expectations just like Pez said and what you will see in this book.